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Talk:Aggressive Brambles
Damage A good hit with Aggressive brambles and one Manifold bramble does more damage than 2 brambles and costs the same amount of AP. : True but here is the thing at level 5 it's damage goes from 6 to 50 thats a possible range attack 44 points and most people seem to get low hits... so its more of reliability and avarage where you can hit 2 hits of 200 for shoure or where you can do 1 hit of 60 to 200. so in most cases you are in a fight monster can kill you if he has the chance, no space to manifold (other way you can suicide if you want to cast it) monsters has 150 exp, so what do you prefere a stable 2 bramble damage or a unreliable aggressive bramble that can have a posibility of doing 60 damage. I do agree Aggressive brambles is great does more damage than brambles but very unreliable. --Cizagna 17:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC) Dear Cizagna, as level 6 Bramble deals from 11-18 damage and Aggressive Brambles deals 6-65, if Bramble dealed 200 damage x2, the Aggressive Brambles would deal aprox from 100-800 damage. Without AP equipment, you can do two level 6 Brambles a turn, and with no AP equipment, you can do a Bramble and an Aggressive Bramble, or a Manifold Bramble and an Aggressive Bramble. So with the damage your saying, Bramble x2 deals 400. Aggr Bram + Bramble deals 300-1000 and Mani + Bramble deals 270-970 (and with 170 of the damage in a size 4 Circular AoE). I think Aggr wins this time, but that's just me. (Remember, this damage is only by Cizagna's random example). --Taioshi00334 (talk) 22:50, September 25, 2009 (UTC) :Cizagna's comment was from 2006, as you can see by the signature at the end. However, what Cizagna said, was that Aggressive does more damage, but you can't trust it to do that damage. AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 00:00, September 26, 2009 (UTC) Bramble vs. Aggressive Brambles I'm unconvinced that low hits are more common - more likely people just notice them more, 'cause they hate them :P the chances of all numbers should be equal. That's not to say that I think Aggressive Brambles is better than Bramble, however: * Level 5 Bramble deals 10-17, which is an average of 13.5. Two attacks would have an average of 27. * Level 5 Aggressive Brambles deals 6-50, an average of 28. Comparable, however, two attacks are better boosted by +damages, which you'll surely have picked up a couple of from equipment. Also, a there's a Level 6 Bramble eventually. I also think it's interesting that Level 5 Aggressive Brambles leaves you with a free AP. You'll probably have at least +1AP by the time you get this spell, so it's quite possible with Aggressive Brambles you'll find AP to throw in another attack, for more damage. Lots to consider >_> In the end, like Natural Attack vs. Cloudy Attack, it probably all comes down to personal preference, tactics, and build. Your forgetting, at level 5, Bramble is 4ap. You would need 8ap to cast it twice. This way, using the same set, you could either use Bramble twice, dealing 20-34 base damage, or use Aggressive Brambles and Manifold Brambles for the same AP cost, and it deals 16-64. Also, at level 6, without +AP, you can do two Brambles, but also at level 6, you can do a Bramble and an Aggressive Bramble without the need for +AP. X2 LVL 6 Brambles deals 22-38 base damage, while an Aggressive Bramble paired with a Bramble deals 17-83. Who wins? I would say Aggressive Brambles, because even though it looks very random, it's min damage isn't much lower than other spells when paired, and it's max is much higher. I prefer fact over opinion, and with these numbers, it looks like Aggressive Brambles is a clear winner, but that's just me. --Taioshi00334 (talk) 22:50, September 25, 2009 (UTC) :The above comment was from 2007. I don't think there was a level 6 Aggressive Bramble then. Try and check the dates on comments before replying to outdated ones. AdventuresOfASquirrelzz 00:03, September 26, 2009 (UTC) To Anon. To the anonymous user who continues to re add the part about Brokle; please stop! IMHO it seems far too redundant a message, anyone with half a brain cell can tell Aggr. Brambles has high rolls and the possibilities, but then again so do many other spells (Slaughtering Shovel, Rekop, Punitive) so I think that the message would clutter the pages far too much. Galrauch (talk) 21:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC) Aggressive? The Sadida must learn to use other spells to both avoid being killed and to frustrate the enemy because the Aggressive Bramble just doesn't add up as a strong offensive spell. At level 5, the *average* damage of Agg is dead between 6 and 50 or only 28 damage. Compare that to Slaughtering Shovel, Xelor's Punch, Punch of the Crackler, Lethal Attack, etc. and you will realize that it is actually quite weak. Many of the aforenamed spells are not limited to linear and can be cast twice per turn. The Agg is straight-line only, once per target per turn and only fair range. I think that the only reason that people fear it is because the average Sadida has a *lot* invested in strength - nearly all. So when it does crit (rarely under level 150), it's pretty impressive. If I was an opposing player, I would not fear it because, as a Sadida, I know how horribly unreliable it is. I fear Sword of Iop more because it hits 24-28 damage reliably 2x per turn per target with area of effect (taking out summons too). A better comparison is Xelor's Punch - linear with 1-6 range and 2x per targe per turn. That spell hits for 41-45 every time it's cast and can be cast more than once per target. Thanks to the existence of the Hai Ring, this changes significantly after level 150 for the Sadida. You get +30 crits on the Aggressive with that, but the avergage hit is still only 35 damage without crit gear. Also, don't forget that the Sadi must surrender another ring to use the Hai - usually losing 1AP from his/her maged Gelano or just losing a lot of power from a set ring. Some Sadidas don't even level the Aggressive Bramble - it just costs too much. Anyway, the Sadida must earn his lunch. If he doesn't use the many tools available to him and work hard at it, he is going to be someone else's meal. ;) Sleepr0 (talk) 04:10, December 11, 2012 (UTC) Postscript: As it turns out, I posted this opinion just minutes before the big Sadi revision (nerf?) of December 11th, 2012. Aggressive is now a much narrower range (too narrow?), but plenty powerful still. Its not 65 damage anymore. Some 150+ players will no doubt complain about the ~20 damage drop at the top end, but I would remind them that they can now dump the Hai ring for more power or AP. As far as sub-150 players go, welcome to the game!